Widgets playing longer than duration

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I have noticed today that my widgets are playing longer in a presentation than the duration I specified in the editor. I noticed it with the Youtube widget first, I was trying to sync it with an image widget in another place holder. We've had it set up this way for a while and I've never noticed it before. The widgets started playing at the same time, the Youtube widget had 'playUntilDone' set to true and I had the image widget set to the duration of the video. The image widget played much longer than the video. If I set 'playUntilDone' to false on the Youtube widget and entered the duration of the video, after the video had played through once it would start over and play several more seconds. I have never noticed this before. I started testing with different widgets, timed them roughly, and they all played longer than the duration entered. It seems like the longer the duration, the longer it goes over. A widget I set at 60 seconds will go over approximately 5 seconds while a widget at 120 seconds will go over approximately 10 seconds. 

Has something changed with the viewer? 

Thank you! 
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Matilda Lane

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Posted 2 years ago

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Darius - PRODO.us, Champion

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Matilda, I am actually surprised you have noticed it only not. In RV is nearly to impossible to sync two different placeholders. Sooner or later they do go out of sync (many things come in play). My YouTube placeholder always plays up to a minute longer. I believe it has to do with cache. Long time ago I had some luck with placeholders playing in sync, but RV keeps updating their widgets (not a bad thing at all) and brake older content sometimes. I pretty much gave up on synchronization at this point. I hope RV will find a way to address this issue in the future.
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Blake Freeman, Official Rep

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Hi Matilda,

Could you please give me a link to preview a presentation that this is happening on?
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Robb, Official Rep

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Thanks for sending that in Matilda!

I think the issue here is exactly as Darius states...overtime the content will start and stop a few milliseconds before or after each other, due to how long it takes to load at that instance. Over time, that certainly affects the overall synchronicity of the content items.

Can I ask which specific content items you are seeing it with in this Presentation? I'd like to test and confirm for myself.

Thanks!
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Matilda Lane

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In this presentation it's the Youtube videos that are playing way longer than the duration I have them set to.

We've been able to synchronize the main placeholder that holds the videos and radar widgets with the placeholder in the top left hand corner that holds the images that read 'Youtube' or 'State Radar' for example. But I started noticing the Youtube videos running over, I decided to try using the playUntilDone feature. When that was set to true, the label in the top left hand corner ran much longer than the video, although it was set to the duration of the video. In this presentation everyone synchronizes fine because it's not playUntilDone. 

It's all kind of hard to explain, so I hope that all makes sense! Thanks for looking into it!
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Hey guys!

Just wanted to chime in here. Matilda is one of our developers. We had a customer call in last week because some of the placeholders were out of sync. We tried to think of different reasons (load time, fade time, etc) but it seems the issue appears bigger than both of those.

Here's another presentation:

http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=5a686831-132a-4a2a-b1c4-ae009960636b

It's pretty simple.. two placeholders with actual content (YouTube Widget and an Image Widget) and two labels (Text Widget). 

You can see that each Text Widget syncs up with it's respective content just fine. That's what we're going for, and all is well.

Our problem though.. even though the widgets are set to go for 60 seconds, they go considerably over. 

Watch the YouTube countdown on the left. The Widget (and it's label) are set to run for 60 seconds. You can see the YouTube widget restarts and goes another 3-4 seconds. Obviously, the Widget is going over the time we've told it.

Oddly though, EVERY widget is going over the specified time.. note the label at the top is staying in sync with the YouTube Widget. The Image Widget and it's label are also going over (but in sync with one another as well as the other widgets).

You may ask why we're using a specified duration at all? We can't use "Play Until Done" otherwise the labels in the other placeholder will stray since we don't know how long to set it for.

So, aside from it seeming a little odd, the first thought was maybe we should shave off a few seconds. It'd be odd to tell our 60second video to play for 55 seconds, but we considered it. (Actually YouTube reports the video I used at 61 seconds. I'm already setting it to 60, and you can see it running over) Unfortunately, you can't just shave off X number of seconds on the duration. It seems to grow with the length of the Widget. A 30 second widget might go over 2 seconds, a 60 second widget might go over 5 seconds, a 2 minute widget close to 10 seconds.. you get the idea ;) And as you can see, it's affecting ALL widgets. I don't think it's an issue in the YouTube Widget. The Text and Image Widgets are also going over the same amount of time.

Hopefully that explains what we're seeing! Thanks as always :)
(Edited)
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Robb, Official Rep

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Very sorry on the delay in getting back to you Wendy, my goal is to carve out the time to investigate this further today, and I will let you know as soon as I have something for you.

Thanks!
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Certainly appreciate it! I verified again it's still happening here today, and I tried last night from my home PC and still noted a consistent 3-4+ second overage on a 60 second timer.

Please let us know what you find out!
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Wendi,

I was looking at your Presentation last night, and I can see that it works as expected when set to PUD, but you mentioned that you can't do that. 

Does this only occur when the YouTube Widget is in the Presentation?
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Negative. Best I can tell it is for all widgets, all the time. Hence why I feel it's a bigger issue. I'll explain more below with a new presentation.
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Darius - PRODO.us, Champion

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As I mentioned before, we have the same problem with the YT playback too. I am not using the YT Widget, instead I am using the HTML Widget to embed the playlist. In addition, I have it scheduled to play differently -  the playlist is active during the certain time of the day for 2 hours only. I noticed that the placeholder with YT drags on for a minute before it disappears. I think buffering is to blame here. It takes time for the device to pre-load and process information, which afterwards gets stored for the playback. And with this slight delay, that can build up noticeably over the time, we get this problem.
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Hey Darius,

I don't feel like this is a problem "over time". It's pretty noticeable at first play through. Although it might get longer and longer, I haven't really tried letting it sit for hours. Also it's definitely not just the YouTube widget here.
(Edited)
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Wendi,

I hate to say it, but this basic Presentation example you put together is working as expected for me. Maybe I need a "heavier" Presentation. Any chance you can shoot me a link to a Presentation that has multiple Widgets that is having this issue?

Thanks!
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The YouTube widget will go over a bit due to buffering. This is something that we can't help due to youtubes API and loading times. When the player sends the play signal to YouTube video it buffers. Even if the video is loaded. The reason is YouTube does it's quality checks before it streams. I have played with the widget to try to keep this from happening but its not easy to do with the current API.
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Thanks for the input guys. Again, we noticed it because of trying to do some things with the YouTube Widget, but I can most assuredly tell you it's not limited to that.

Lets try this from another angle. New presentation:

http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=d18f7d1b-7f8d-4da2-8910-085160366...

Three "blocks" on this presentation..

Block 1: (top left)
60 second Web Page Widget (flipclock.js counter)
5 second Text Widget
repeat

Block 2: (top right)
120 second Web Page Widget (flipclock.js counter)
5 second Text Widget
repeat

Block 3: (bottom center)
60 second Image Widget
5 second Text Widget
repeat

Things to notice:
* Watch Block 1.. when the counter reaches 1 min (60 sec) it goes over ~5 sec. Noticeably more than the 60 sec entered.


* Watch Block 3.. notice that it stays in sync with the 60sec / 5sec Block 1. Meaning the Image Widget is also running for ~5 sec over. Both stay in sync with each other great though.. the image is showing when the counter is showing, text shows when text is showing, repeat. But both widgets are running over the 60sec we have given them.

* Watch Block 2.. when the counter reaches 2 min (120 sec) it goves over ~12 sec. Noticeably more than the 120 sec entered. 


As you can see, there is no YouTube Widget in this presentation whatsoever. No way a simple javascript counter would cause a 12 second buffer time (and the same counter cause a 5 second buffer in another widget). Also it's curious that the 60 sec counter and the 60 sec image are both going over ~5 sec and keeping in sync with one another fine.

Hopefully that will explain a little better? Thanks again :) 
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Anyone had a chance to look at this? I tried on my phone and in Firefox over the weekend also. Same results with widgets going over. Heck, I just threw it up now in IE and got the same. Anyone else see this? Thanks :)
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Wendi,

I wasn't able to test this specific Presentation today, but it is first on my list to look at tomorrow :)

Sorry for the delay! The YouTube one worked fine for me, so I am hoping that I can recreate the issues you are seeing with this one.

Thanks!
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Wendi,

I've got this running now, and I will let you know what I see later today!
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Wendi,

Either I am blind or crazy, you can tell me which :) 

I don't see this happening on my Display, I gave it hours to see if it eventually went past the 1 minute mark and 2 minute mark, but they both switched exactly when I expected them to.

This video was taken after running the Presentation from a 4 pm reboot yesterday afternoon until 9:25 this morning. Let me know if I am missing something.

Thanks!
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If it is any comfort to you, Wendi, I am seeing the same thing as you in preview )  That counter is Java animation I suppose. That alone may have something to do with the delay.
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Thanks for that Darius!

It's a very lightweight and simple Javascript counter. If you notice though, the title above the counters (text widget), as well as the picture at the bottom (image widget) also switch out at the same time. Meaning that the Text and Image Widgets are both also going over ~6s on a 60s timer. The 120s timer goes over ~12s.. same simple Javascript running there, and the "2 min" title above that counter (text widget) stays over the same amount of time, even though they are not connected in any way. You could time this yourself with a stopwatch.. a 120s timer will go over ~12s. The Javascript counter just made for an easier illustration. :)
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Yes, I actually used my stopwatch to check the accuracy of the animation... it looked to me like the animation was dragging a bit. Not the case, the timer is accurate, but for some reason it is playing longer than you have set it.
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Wendi,

I had the exact same situation as Darius! I used the stopwatch on my phone, and both arrived at 1 minute at the exact same time, however the timer continued to go past 1 minute.
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Robb, that is the problem. The placeholders should have disappeared after 60s or 2min.
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Wendi, Darius,

I brought this up to our Dev team, and they informed me that:

Viewer "seconds" as defined are not really on the "second". It uses a 1 second internal timer in order to keep content synchronized, which may run "late" as CPU cycles used for processing delay it. There's also load mechanisms in place that are supposed to keep the content synchronized. All in all, 1 minute in terms of playback can run longer (1 min 6 seconds in this case).

Also, since Javascript is single threaded, these 1 second cycles are affected by the behaviour and CPU cycle usage of the Content within the Presentation itself.

So the 2 visual timers running with transitions, etc, are probably slowing down the Viewer's 1 second timer as well.

Any chance you can remove one of those timers and we can see if that affects the outcome?
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Hey Robb,

I can certainly tell that the viewer syncs up all the widgets to one another as far as time. Any widget I tell to run 60 sec plays ~66sec.. any widget I tell to run 120sec plays ~132sec.

I also understand JavaScript being single-threaded. I don't agree with the 2 times running slowing down the Viewer's timer, and here's why..

Two more examples:
As requested, a presentation with only 1 of the timers and an image widget

http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=cb46f40e-64af-47c2-ab74-2e1f47304...

Note this timer still counts to 2:12 (132sec). The titlebar I've given it (text widget) as well as the image widget and it's titlebar all sync up. all of them are running over ~12 seconds. I see no reason a simple lightweight counter would slow a presentation for 12 whole seconds.

Further.. here's another presentation. For simplicity, *all* it contains is an image widget (set at 120sec) and then a text widget (set at 5sec). 

http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=24a0d307-09f8-4f77-a6de-0605842a0...

Use your own stopwatch and you can see, just a plain old image widget is going over ~12sec. The only reason I even included the timers in the others was to illustrate that point.
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Thanks for that additional info Wendi! I'll make sure the dev team sees this.
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Ezequiel Conte, Employee

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Hi Wendy,

thanks for bringing this to attention. I work in the dev team and we understand that this is an issue and we are currently working on it. We will post an update once we have a conclusion. 

Thanks!
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Thanks Ezequiel, we certainly appreciate you looking into it! :)
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Wendi,

Another suggestion after discussing it further:

Can you cut the YouTube video short with a duration rather than PUD, which I know won't work? This way the content will be synced, however the downside is you won't see the last few seconds of the Video. it would be a good test though.

There may also be mechanisms in the Youtube Widget that make the playback there longer than the duration you're expecting, but I think cutting it, just to test if that works is a good place to start.

Let us know how you make out!
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Robb, I have YT stream (live news) set to play from 12 to 2PM Mon-Fri, but I have noticed it 'spilling over' by up to a minute. I will run a test now for an hour just to make sure it does it.
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Forgot to update. 45 min YT stream played longer by over a minute. Although, it was set to stop at 3:30, it continued well into 3:31 before shutting down. So, your suggestion, Robb, would not work either.
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Robb,

These are all things Matilda and I discussed before coming to the forum, and I've tried to express before.

The task at hand:
Sync up a title bar with playing widgets

Easy peasy, right? Set each placeholder to contain items with the same time lengths and all works well.

Example:
A presentation with just two placeholders and three items in each.
Widgets Placeholder: Image 30 sec, Weather 120 sec, Web Page 60 sec
Title Placeholder: Text 30 sec, Text 120 sec, Text 60 sec
And this would work and display fine. Rise vision keeps all in sync :)
What we have discovered now..
* Image is really playing for ~33sec
(the title Text lines up since it also plays ~33sec)
* Weather is really playing for ~132sec
(the title Text lines up since it also plays ~120sec)
* Web Page is really playing for ~66sec
(the title Text liens up since it also plays ~66sec)

Now enter video. Be it YouTube, WebM, whatever.
Video is something you'll notice if it goes over, as we've found out.

Here's another example Presentation. Again, for simplicity, we've gone with just a single Video Widget and a single Text widget to break it up.
Video Widget - 45sec WebM video, set to 45sec
Text Widget - 5sec text

http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=997c5179-0740-464a-8c1d-9674480ec...

If you Preview this presentation, you'll see that the video plays through completely, plus another ~5 seconds, then goes to the Text Widget.

As you can see, the behavior is the same for ALL widgets. Be it Image, Text, Web Page, HTML, Video (WebM), YouTube, everything. It's just severely noticable with videos, as you get the loop and start over.


Now what do we do about it? That's where Matilda and I started with our discussion when we discovered this. Do we tell a customer to shave off some time? How much time? (Originally we thought maybe a few seconds, but obviously longer durations yield a longer spill-over time). It appears to be about 10%, but is that accurate? Also, it's very obvious to me in Preview on every device we have thrown it on that this is occurring, but it appears on your device it cut off at exactly the time. If we shave off X seconds it could look fine in preview and then be way too short on the Display?
(Edited)
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Wendi,

This is something that we are going to investigate as well, so I will be sure to update you if we make any changes in this area that would affect this.

Thanks!
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Thanks Rob!

It's just incredibly wild to me that something like "Play Until Done" actually *shortens* the length of a placeholder to accommodate a full video, best I can tell. ;)

Please do keep us updated!
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Wendi,

I wanted to let you know that this has been corrected. If you look at the Presentation you shared now in preview (this one), you'll notice that the counter doesn't go over 2 minutes anymore, instead it ends after 1:59, as expected, and then everything continues as expected.

Let me know if you are seeing the same on your Previews and Displays!
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Just wanted to report in that we tested this out today and it looks great! I want to give it a little more testing tomorrow before we push some changes on our end to our customers. Thank you all for the response to our problem! :)