The Future of Embedded Presentations

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Given the conversations about Embedded Presentations we thought it would be best to share our "official" stance on the situation.

So, yes, it is true - Embedded Presentations won't be supported in the new Editor, but that doesn't mean we are abandoning all the great uses cases an Embedded Presentation can be used for. The problem with Embedded Presentations is they are really complex to manage. And when things don't work right, they can be a nightmare to troubleshoot. It doesn't have to be this way, but we need to understand all the problems Embedded Presentations solve. With that feedback we can then work on designing a user experience that solves one problem at a time.

We've received great feedback already so if you're a Embedded Presentation user, and you haven't provided feedback already, please take a few minutes and tell us what problems they solve for you so we can build Apps that are more reliable and easier to use. 

Thank You! 
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Posted 3 years ago

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Dave

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All of our presentations are embedded presentations. It is how we a mange all of our installations, sites and displays. All of our customer's content is hierarchical in nature and embeds are the only way we can assure consistency and proper distributed control of the broadcast day.

This will be a relatively problematic change for us and it is one the reasons we have not been using the new editor.

That all said: Thanks for the awesome software!
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Dave

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Most companies are managed at the parent while 1 has users within multiple sub-companies
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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What problem would you encounter if all your Displays and Presentations where under one Company? 
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Dave

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Users in the lower tier of the hierarchy would be able to see and modify presentations they are not allowed/permitted to see or modify currently. Also, the lack of the "nested approach" means that instead of having to publish one or two sub-components of a presentation, the future user would have to edit from the combined single (main) presentation. This will create a training ramp that we have thus far avoided.

 We can do it, but it will not be pretty.

 Administratively, having our current hierarchy and its collateral collapsed into a single company sounds like it might expose all presentations and media to all users in one, big long list. They might then have to hunt through to find the presentation that pertains to them. Trouble

 We do a "collapsed hierarchy" now but only within our parent company. When a customer does not want to manage their own content (frequently), we place their displays and presentations under our top level company so we can see the display status in one view, without having to write an application to do it. We have learned that this approach makes presentation management a bit of a pain just from the volume of presentations. So now, we place the master presentation (container) in the top company and the client's individual content items under a sub-company. The master inherits them. Basically faking-out what would normally be a folder?

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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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To confirm the problems that embedded presentations solves for you (in conjunction with sub-companies)

1. Content can be separated by entity (sub-company) making it easier for users of the entity to locate Presentations and related assets.

2. User access can be restricted which eliminates risk in changes to content that does not belong to them.

Let me know if there is anything else. Thanks!
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Dave

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...one presentation to rule them all (schedule) and in the display, bind them.
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Biologyben

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We use embedded presentations to get around some issues with access control and because it makes it easier for staff to create more complex displays without getting into nitty-gritty details of using the system.   We've made some changes recently that reduce some of these complexities, but it was nice to have the flexibility.

For instance, we had a main presentation with settings we didn't want employees to change.  So employees were moved to a new company (only for access control) and they had a main presentation to use for their content.  For me - I'd like to see each company have the ability to have multiple user groups or folders to allow tighter content access control.  If this were to happen, I'd be more likely to pay for add-ons as currently I might have to pay multiple times to use those add-ons within my small organization (in particular rise storage). Perhaps each company could also have a shared media area where users could add images/logos/videos/etc but only admin and the content creator could alter/delete.

Also Within our staff presentation, we made a few other presentations to get around issues of simple layering of text over graphical backgrounds in an easy way so staff could handle updates. The new system my do a better job of addressing this issue or be easier to teach - I've not played with it much to know.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Thanks for the feedback Biologyben. 

In the scenario you provided where you don't want the presentation settings altered. I assume you are embedding the main presentation from the sub company into the main presentation of the parent company?
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Dave

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That is correct. Sometimes, multiple sub-companies content are placeholdered(verb) into the single master
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Biologyben

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Yep -Exactly.  
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Embedded Presentation Use Case.

Blake,

One way that I really use embedded presentations is to show a DEMO of displays in my sub-companies. For example..

Company A (Main Company)
- DEMO BOX 1 (embedded, points to whatever company/pres I want to view)
- DEMO BOX 2 (embedded, points to whatever company/pres I want to view)


Company B (Sub-Company)
- DISPLAY 1 (shows pres 1)
- DISPLAY 2 (shows pres 2)
- Presentation 1
- Presentation 2

Company C (Sub-Company)
- DISPLAY 1 (shows Pres 1)
- DISPLAY 2 (shows Pres 2)
- Presentation 1
- Presentation 2

I need a way to preview here in the office (my main company) an actual presentation on a real display. Preview will not work since it doesn't pay attention to schedules. I need to show it here as it would be running at the sub-company. I don't want to put a Display under each sub-company.. I would then be editing the Display ID in my box all the time. My solution is to do Embedded Presentations on my Demo Boxes.. then to change which presentation it points to, I just go into my sub-company, get the presentation ID, and update it. I have a little txt overlay to remind me what DEMO box/hardware it's actually running on, but essentially I am giving myself an in-house demo of a running site in the field.

The only other idea I have would be, going into the sub-company, copying over every bit if HTML, and bring it over to my DEMO BOX presentation. That's not ideal given (1) It isn't as elegant as just changing one presentation ID, and (2) It does not get updated when I update the sub-company presentation. I might have this running constantly at my side while I'm working on an individual presentation for a sub-company.

What would the Community Success Team recommend I do for displaying multiple sub-company presentations on my in-house test device?

Thank you!

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Embedded Presentations Going Away Completely?.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Hi Wendi, can you tell me why you can't have everything under one Company? Thanks!
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Hey Alan,

Similar to the other users above, we need a hierarchy for users. We need the ability to let the user update their presentations, but their presentations only. We do not want that user to see other presentations or other displays, so we've broken them off into sub-companies. We do also want the ability to override or add to their presentations if say we have a specific slide or two we want to go to multiple devices.

I did need a way to see in-house a demo of an actively running site. Preview doesn't work for this since it does not adhere to schedules. Basically, our sales guy downstairs needs to see the system as it is running for the user, that way if they have asked for something to show or be removed, he can take care of it, verify what they are seeing, etc.

To do that, I could have made a "Demo" device under each company, that would leave him constantly having to change the Display ID in his test device. Rather, we decided to do the embedded presentation, so he can go into one place and change one string. We had the idea to build out functionality via API's in our external admin tool for him to just go to a device and tell it to go to his demo.

But yes, basically we just needed that hierarchy. Something akin to folders or groups would also be fine for us if we can manage user permissions to specific signs/presentations. I honestly would like for them to be under our blanket company and grouped off.

As a side note, it still creates problems for our purposes, since ideally I DO want to go to a single place to see every Display ID we manage in one list with their status. I also would like individual companies to be able to monitor their displays. Currently, I just have to go into each company. We would love a master list, perhaps broken up by company would be fine.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Thanks Wendi. I appreciate the feedback!
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Marty Wroblewski

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled embedded presentation use case.

This will be a real issue for me if the ability to embed presentations in a presentation is disabled.

I created a display infrastructure in the old editor which was working fine and then tried using the new editor and liked the new interface better, but noticed I could not embed another presentation in my global template.  I then found this posting and wanted to add my two cents.

My setup that I am currently testing and proposing to use for my company is to have the main company setup with corp presentations and then setup sub companies for each site.  In each sub company there would be presentations setup for each department for local content.  This enables me to have local presentations for each site and have corp communications pushed down to each site as well.  This part would not be affected by the new version.

I have a 1080 display setup that has my base screen that is a modified version of the Business Landscape Template 1 that I use as a global template.  In this global template, I set a placeholder on the left side of the display and made the resolution 1280x1024.  Thjen I created separate presentations that are 1280 x 1024 that each department can then edit and adjust for their needs.  This creates a uniform setting and the news updates still appear.  It is a very seamless look and looks very professional.  This is a critical component that made me want to use your product.  I have embedded videos and Google sheets and Google slides and have not run into an issue.  I would be very disappointed to see this function disappear.

Thanks,
Marty

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Embedded Presentations Going Away Completely?.
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Hi Marty, just to confirm, you are using sub-Companies and embedded Presentations because it provides accessibility control so that Users do not modify content for a department they don't belong to inadvertently. Is that correct? 
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Marty Wroblewski

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That is correct.  My main company is the corporation and then my subs are the individual sites with in the company.  I do not want a sub(site) to have the ability to change a main(corp) presentation.
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Marty Wroblewski

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Alan,

I noticed you questioning other users on going to a single company structure and figured I would give my feedback.  In order for me to be able to do something like that, RV would need to have some changes made to its security model.

  1. Ability to create folders in each of the functions of RV to keep everything organized (Presentations, Displays, etc.)
  2. Ability to create custom security groups
  3. Ability to apply the group or individual security to a folder or individual item like a presentation.
Being in one company would still not help with the issue of not being able to embed a presentation within another base presentation.  On the flip side of having the setup in one company it would be a lot easier, if embedding was still able to function, to be able to select a presentation from the menu and have the title and other information populate in the playlist, instead of copying the ID and having to change all the parameters.
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Makes sense. Thanks for the feedback!
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James Friedman

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Embedded presentation use case.

The ability to embed presentations within presentation is criticial to the presentation configurations and to the complex of sub-companies at my instititution.  Embedded presentations was one of the features that caused us to move to RiseVision originally and have been the mainstay of our configuration. Can the HTML code generated in the older editor be installed in the new editor, tweaked, and run successfully when the tweak includes an embedded presentation? Is the deprecation that of the editor's abiltity to work with embedded presentations or will embedded presentations no longer be supported by the players ?

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Embedded Presentations Going Away Completely?.
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Hi James, could you explain what problems you would encounter by having all Displays and Presentations under one Company? 
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James Friedman

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The number or presentations kept recordered is large. If all the presentations of all sub-companies were under a single company the roster would be almost unmangeable. The current subcompanies map to specific monitors which are managed independently by different academic departments.  If all departments were to be working in the One Company the result would be again dauntingly unmanageable - I could not ask each company to please name their presentations according to a format that would enable them to distinguish their own from that of the many others.  One Company would be a nightmare both administratively and politically.  Also - the easiest means of running very different presentations in sequence with the ability to swap them in and out at a moment's notice is to have for each subcompany a single container presentation in which all the other presentations are contained - enabling quick-and-effortless presentation change without having to muck about with scheduling.  This works hugely wonderfully for special events.  Also - is HTML being deprecated ?  This is another feature that is intrinsic to the configuration at this instituion. The issue with embedded presentations as described by RiseVision is that they make RiseVision's job harder - which reminds me of a line in the film Searching for Bobby Fischer, "Well, your job just got harder."
(Edited)
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Understood on the organization of assets by entity and the shared content. Thank you!

The HTML Item is deprecated and will not be available in the new Editor, but the HTML Widget is supported and available in the Store.
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Mark Parsons

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Embedded presentation use case.

We're currently using sub presentations to streamline updating of a snow report comprised of 6 google sheets that feeds into a playlist ~6x times and then feeds to a second presentation which is scheduled to play at certain times on the same display. This creates 7 instances of 6 google sheets, which all need to be identical. If we were to move directly to google drive sheets, it would require a quite a few changes to for a colorway shift. This same presentation also feeds to another display.

We also have 3 lobby presentations setup with a snow report, each feeding from the same embedded presentation of 6 google drive sheets, but with a different colorway than the scenario outline above. The same issue arises, where instead of 1 change, we'd have to make 3.

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Embedded Presentations Going Away Completely?.
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Thanks for the feedback mparsons. Just to confirm, the problem in the scenario you provided.

You have several Displays and each one shows a different style Presentation, but those Presentations show common data (e.g., snow report). An Embedded Presentation allows you to manage that common data from one place thus eliminating the repetition of adding the same data to each Presentation. 

Do I have that right?
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Mark Parsons

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Exactly.
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AdGators AdGators

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This is also how I utilize Embedded Presentations
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AdGators AdGators

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Hi Alan, I believe my issue was mentioned in another thread, so you guys probably have it recorded already, but I will provide a recap.

The first issue is when I have a section of my 1920x1080 presentation which might have a 200x200 placeholder playing a few widgets and an embedded presentation. The embedded presentation might have a couple of widgets side-by-side and sized appropriately. I'm not sure how this could be fixed without an embedded presentation.

The second issue is on our advertising displays. We might have 10 widgets of images and video's. Then add in our embedded presentations, that contain what I'll call "content of interest," into the playlist, which might have an RSS feed with nice background or perhaps a web page widget with overlay (overlay items that we don't want playing while the ads are playing, but definitely when the content of interest is playing). Your "Play Until Done" placeholder option slightly fixes this. However, this wont be 100% ideal, as I often like to place the Content of Interest slides in between ads. So if the Play Until Done option is set, I would need to create Block Sections of Advertisement Presentations in the Schedule section, in order to play Content of Interest in between them. Otherwise, all Content of Interest Presentations would be lumped together at the end of my Advertisement deck, which is not the approach to keep people looking up at the displays to see stocks or weather in between ads.

Hope those two issues make sense. If not let me know and I can build out my examples.
Thank you,
Joe Kirchner
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Thanks Joe. I'm not sure I completely understand the first issue. If you have a example Presentation I could look at that would be helpful.

As for the second issue, why does the "Content of Interest" have to be an embedded Presentation? Could it not just be the another item in the Playlist of Images and Videos? 
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AdGators AdGators

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Hi Alan,
Here is the example. You will see in the top right, under the "weather" placeholder name, there is a main Doppler Widget pre-configured to the size of the placeholder and then a Current and 3-day weather widgets sized each independently to fit into the placeholder properly. If the embedded presentation is removed, I'm not sure how I could swap these two within the same placeholder.

Main Presentation:
http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=315c2d61-70c7-4284-91c8-5e2fa414b...

Current and 3-day Weather Embedded Presentation
http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=cdc92324-f645-4d66-88ef-9820c4626...


As for "Content of Interest" I'm referring to Weather, Stocks, Gas Prices, Sports Scores, RSS Feeds, or anything that makes people looks up to see Dynamic Data that auto-populates via internet. This encourages patrons to keep an eye on our Advertisement display for relevant content. So at present we have our advertisements playing full screen @ 1920x1080. Below is an example of how the Advertisement Presentation is created. The content of interest can't play at 1920x1080 and still look presentable. I instead create it's own Presentation and set the embedded presentation so that they looks appealing to the viewer and aren't simply a full screen placeholder of a text RSS feed. Embedded Presentations give a much more capable ability of playing these content of interest in between full screen items.

Advertisement Location A
- Video Ad 1
- Video Ad 2
- Image Ad 1
- Gas Prices http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=f68b93a0-2e15-45ea-8100-bdbc4c8d9...
- Image Ad 2
- Video Ad 3
- Stocks
- Weather http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=28b73949-71e2-4a5c-91c5-19bea8eec...
- Video Ad 4
- Video Ad 5
- RSS News Feed http://preview.risevision.com/Viewer.html?type=presentation&id=28cb5fbb-e52f-4249-ae60-a3d4e3350...


Hope that helps clear things up.
Thank you,
Joe Kirchner
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Thanks and understood now Joe.

The ability to show two Widgets at the same time from the same playlist is a tricky one! 
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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We have another similar issue where we use embedded presentations.
For example, we have a constant header along the top of the screen, two sections in the middle of the screen, and a constant feed along the bottom.
|--------------------------------
|_Title_____________
||Widget1           Widget2
|
|
|
|__________________
|_RSS/Feed_________

We will be showing content on the Widget1 and Widget2, but periodically we want to show a full-screen content that covers the area of both Widget1 + Widget2. Embedded presentations was the only way we could come up with to achieve such an effect while keeping the feed along the bottom constant (which is a must).
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XMedia Dubai

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Hi Alan,

embedded presentation is of great use for me since i have a default playlist which i play in 150 
+ locations and also some specific location/region based content. Like I have 50 branches where i show forex rates along with ads and each of this 50 branches the forex rates vary. So common embed presentation helps me in managing the ads part easily. I suggest we keep this feature. Most of us are in favour of this.

regards,
Prakash
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Thanks for the feedback Prakash!
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XMedia Dubai

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embedded presentation or playlist in playlist feature is the core of risevision which makes it stand out from others. Please extend it to new version also.
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James Friedman

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A very useful trick for me is to have each monitor run its own "container" presentation scheduled without interruption. Then for special events I can simply delete presentations from that container and introduce other presentations into the container.  This obviates the need to do scheduling for quick, on-the-fly presentation changes.  This provides great control and flexibility for quick on-the-fly changes.  This technique is used with other "tricks" that enable me to provide visual feedback of the first part of an event with photographs just taken and to have this feedback shown during the second half of the event...and on multiple monitors.  I can within a very few minutes present literally hundreds of photos of an event onto the displays, with transitions, while the event is still proceeding.  Swapping presentations in and out of the container presentation makes this kind of quick, on-the-fly update mechanism very efficient.
(Edited)
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Eric S.

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Add me to the list of users that need embedded presentations as well as multiple companies to control the users who have access to presentations and content.

Main thing I have to use embedded presentations for is our daily menu. I was forced to switch off a single presentations because apparently the software couldn't handle the number of placeholders/instances in each to use a single presentation.

A presentation was created with only the videos so that it can be embedded. Because videos were not listening to schedules (Another thread for this exists) I had to create another presentation to play within the other presentation so I could switch them out all at once and on time without spending half an hour adding them again. They were prepped days ahead of time and then I just switched what Presentation was being shown in the Placeholder.

I simply cannot be going into 7 presentations every time I need to change or add a video. I use a single presentation for the videos and embed that into the rest of the presentations. As we expand, I was also planning on using Embedded presentations to play the same content on multiple different presentations throughout the facility.
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Robb, Official Rep

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Thanks for the feedback!
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Scott Patrick

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Add me to the list of users that prefer to KEEP sub-companies and DO NOT WANT TO MERGE THEM INTO A SINGLE COMPANY. 
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James Friedman

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I prefer that the sub-company configuration be maintained and heartily vote against the mandatory merging all existing sub-companies in an organization into a single company within that organization.  Such a merging would result in a very difficult and inefficient situation for the organization that I represent.
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tony

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Just let start by saying any comment I make no matter how it sounds is not a personal attack.  It's the collection of thoughts that go through our heads here when something changes or there is an issue.  We understand that all feedback from our customers is necessary.  This is simply my feedback.  We have been Rise Vision users for quite some time...over 6 years...probably longer.  While it has allowed us an offering to our customers...anyone using Rise to create revenue and any company of any sort of scale at all has to be very frustrated with the continually moving target.  One example is when we had many issues with the player less than a year ago and were told the App player was the player of choice.  Not even a full year later we are finding he app player won't stay running, the recommended monitor app caused issues and now not a full year later the Chrome app is kind of abandoned and the Native player is being championed as "the way to go".  If you have any scale at all it's a full time job at times following the Rise changes around to try to keep all you screens running.  The commitment doesn't seem as much on improvement as making the back more convenient for the Rise team.  That's just how it feels...may not be true, but many of these people have built companies and clients around the things you implement then take away non-stop.  How can you maintain a customer base?  

Here is why we REALLY do not want to see embedded presentations go away.  

Layering of text over video.  If I want a weather screen with video background...or any png or backgroundless file with a changing or video background, it has to be done in the embedded presentation because you can't do it any other way.

Changing backgrounds with similar content. - We had a customer who had a placeholder on the screen and one of the items in that placeholder was sports.  You can put a basketball background behind the basketball scores and baseball behind baseball, etc.  This is impossible without the use of embedded placeholder currently. 

Here is the big one.  Networks of scale don't have time to monkey around with a million processes when one can be used.  This is where the move away from embedded presentations could find Rise the choice of very small operators with larger networks moving away.  A great example is - we provide trivia for several of our customers.  The Trivia is the same for all these customers.  We tried to make this working using the RSS feed, but that doesn't time properly with some playing out of order and times being inconsistent.  We've been told by Rise the problem was fixed, despite the fact that it really isn't. ...but that's another story.  We are left to use jpgs for video.  Either way, the math will kill any network of scale.  ...and this is just an example, so don't be dismissive and say "well not everyone does trivia".  There are several processes that work exactly the same as this example.  If I have just 20 locations 10 trivia segments...and if each trivia segment has 8 stills, 4 questions and 4 answers, the change to no embedded presentations means instead of making 80 changes now 1,600 changes are required.  Of course the other option is we could just have one really long playlist...but again, since only the core is the same and every location has location specific content the playlist would be up to 100 items long or more.  Hours of checking locations for every file and then the misery of trying to look at the playlist and determine which files are playing at each location without having to break out a worksheet.  What a pain.  

Having said all that.  If you can come up with a method that allows changes of common content at some locations but not others and affect changes at 20 locations in a mutl-part viewing segment that will change at those locations but not change at others, while making those 20 changes happen with one click vs. 20, then I'm all for it.    
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Tony, thanks for the feedback. You are correct. We screwed up with the Chrome App Player. We gave up control of the infrastructure responsible for updates and we paid the price for it. No doubt about it. We took back control and recommend our native Linux and/or Windows Players. We control the browser version, have a built in watchdog and we will continue to improve them. The effort to do this required thousands of development and support hours. This was not a convenient transition for us, but a necessary one to ensure Users have reliable digital signage. Again, we all are truly sorry for the inconvenience it created.

As for the Embedded Presentations. The complexity they introduce make it difficult to identify why content may not work as expected.  Case in point, the scenario you describe above with RSS embedded into another presentation and the content not syncing up.  These complexities prevent us from shipping a reliable product. In order to have an app that is reliable and scalable we have to eliminate that complexity. Not the features, just the complexity. Which was the goal of this topic, to understand how embedded presentations are used so that we can work towards building applications that satisfy those critical use cases and ensure they are easy to use, easy to understand and reliable. If we can't do that, we (you) have zero scalability. 

On a side note, I wasn't aware the RSS issue was still open. Let me review internally to see where things where left and we'll get back to you. 

Thanks!

Glencoe, could you provide some details on the issues you are having and with what Widgets?
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tony

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Alan,

Thank you for feedback from the Rise camp.  As I was saying when I started my post.  These are not personal attacks.  ...but I know, it's a fine line.   However when you are the vehicle that I am building on to provide an end result to my clients, one misstep and I get phone calls and yes...I become an erupting volcano.  Thank you for the the apology for the inconvenience.  You have no idea the inconvenience the switch to the app and back caused.  It all began with all my screens provided to a very high profile customer were shut down/throttled because of library usage.  I was told it was because we were using the player and not the app and we should use the app.  I personally spent a whole day at my desk changing over machine remotely, taking angry phone calls and back and forth emails with Rise.  ...only to find screens were still shutting down the next morning.  Several months later we started fielding calls about screens that were just a desktop...no signage, only to be told we should change back.  ...another day on at the desk.  By the way, in my capacity my time is better spent building relationships, not fixing things that should be working because we need them done ASAP so we don't lose every customer we have.  

I spent another night a few years ago from about 11pm to 3am moving all my files for all my screens after being shut down by dropbox.  This was because I was told by a Rise employee that dropbox was the best option.  A couple years later I was told, by some employee, maybe the same one that Dropbox has never been endorsed as a solution for your signage, but there is still a video within your forums of that person saying in video, it's his favorite option (or something of that nature).  

I am not beating a dead horse.  I am hoping you truly appreciate the struggles customer like me have had to endure because of the solution of the day changing non-stop.  I am all for the idea of you creating something as functional and better than embedded presentations.  I think the overwhelming pushback you are seeing is not that people don't want something better.  It's that as an open source solution I think they realize some things won't be perfect and have had to learn to live with those imperfections.  I'd rather come up with a workaround now and then than have to rethink my entire delivery every 2 years or less.  It is VERY exhausting.  

Back to where I started; I think the pushback you are getting is based on the fact that the thread began by announcing embedded presentations are going away.  You go on to support the statement by saying (to paraphrase) it makes for some work on your end.  I know I downplayed that.  I'm sure it's a lot.  However the statement was very absolute.  It wasn't that we are looking to make this process better.  We hope to find a solution that is better for our customers that allows us to provide a better product.  It was simply stated, embedded presentations are going away because they are too complex.  I think to some the statement has come down to realizing it may be a moving target they will never hit.  

The reality may be that people are willing to put up with some small issues in exchange for piece of mind that the software won't change again and that they will not have to spend days again revamping their entire system.  I guarantee the cost of change is being measured against the cost of some more costly platforms that don't require the perpetual change of complete systems in an ongoing fashion.  

As for the RSS widget.  I think it just doesn't work.  As an RSS feed it probably does the trick as an RSS feed for news, but we were just trying to multipurpose its use and it's just a little off.  We were given a solution that we were told by Rise worked.  We tried it and said it didn't.  When we reported that it didn't the answer was that "that issue had been resolved already."  So we explored other options...because it didn't.

 
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Ashleigh

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Hi Tony,

Could you please forward the name of your presentation that embeds the RSS Feeds?

I will look into this for you.

Ashleigh
(Edited)
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Ashleigh

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Hello Tony,

I haven't received a followup, but I can verify that your playlist issue is due to the fact that the viewer will display what loads first in the playlist. Hence why your images were loading before your video. On your Display, this shouldn't occur. If it does, its should be for a minimal duration of time before iterating accordingly. 

So in the future, if your playlist plays out of order, just bear in mind that this is specific only to the preview viewer and it should play  in order on your display. 

We have created a card for this issue, and will be addressing it in the future. We definitely agree that the current nature of previewing the viewer can be confusing to some users.

I hope this helps. If you could forward me your presentation that you are experiencing issues with, even better. Happy to assist.

Ashleigh
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tony

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Are you referring to the videos not playing?  If so we have always been aware of the fact that jpgs and pretty much everything else load before videos.  We never expect a playlist to play correctly until the 2nd time through.  I don't know if the new player issue is clear up or not.  That was different.  The videos would not play at all.  Not even after an hour with just 3 things in the playlist...but I think it might be resolved.  I haven't been doing any testing and don't have the player anyplace we need video for that reason, so right now it's not causing problems...but will soon if not fixed. We will be testing again later this week.  
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KrayMitchell

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I very much agree with Tony, but I will be honest, after the treatment I got from RiseVision it's a bit of a personal attack. I don't recommend Rise to anybody anymore.

After becoming a RiseVision "Partner" to build and sell pre-configured Pi players, I was never notified (During my application process, or my dozens of posts on the forums) that the Pi Player was NOT built or supported by RiseVision (There was also no mention of this on the website anywhere at the time, and I'm probably the reason the instructions have been removed from the website as well).

I only found out about this, months after I invested thousands in hardware and setup, when I posted about issues with communication from Rise and the Chrome Player and asked about the future of things. While I was having issues with the Chrome Player outside of the Pi hardware, I still wanted to know what the roadmap was.

You can read the rather lengthy discussion here (Started because of the lack of communication from Rise to it's users, and I was getting pissed having to change things so often), but a key point I would like to highlight posted by Byron

*EDIT* The link to the original is saying that the thread is closed and not available to community members, so I have posted a screenshot of the entire thread on Dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ilmhzqvbqzbwtdf/risevision-discussion.png?dl=0
In terms of assurances as to where things are going in the future. I have none. I am giving you none. We have no idea where technology is going, what is being deprecated, what is coming down the road, etc. etc. I would suggest that you either find a commercial supplier that will contractually give you the assurances you need because you are paying them to do that, or, take the open source code, which we freely give away, and run your own development path. What you require and are demanding is beyond the scope of what we can offer and you should look for another solution.

So he's basically saying they have no roadmap for their software, and will give no assurances on anything. I attribute the issues and the lack of forethought on things like removing Embedded presentations to the fact that they did not develop a roadmap or plan anything properly. 

And to read this post as a supposed 'Partner' was more than upsetting. I feel that this response goes well with this thread too. Remember at the time they were advertising RiseVision as an Enterprise Solution and there was NO mention that the Pi Player was not a RiseVision Product, nor that they would not support it.

I don't think that expecting a roadmap or some kind of understanding where the software is going is 'demanding', especially for a Partner who is providing hardware for the system.

That's my thoughts, and I wanted to share that other thread with the other users here upset about where things are going so they can see how I was responded to when I asked about things that were not demanding by any means.
(Edited)
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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Just fishing to see if there is anything on the horizon from Rise as far as workarounds for any of our use cases. The topic semi-shifted, but the base problem is still the same.. several of us have workflows that use embedded presentations, and I'm checking to see if we have some ideas or have some hope :)
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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You can see the basic structure in our sub-company called RV Test. There is a Container Presentation that has two embedded presentations. The presentation Stephen posted above is what we are trying to accomplish here at it's most basic level :) Key point here is that the scroller at the bottom of the screen needs to stay constant. We couldn't use two back-to-back presentations because the scroller will drift and not sync.
(Edited)
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Dave

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Ditto: This is the same functionality replicated in all of our embedded/nested company presentations. I don't think (need to think some more) that a shared playlist approach is going to get this done.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Stephen, Wendi and Dave - thanks for the feedback! Very helpful! 

The API's that support embedded presentations will be deprecated at a future date that is to be determined, but our recommendation is to not use them due to the issues they can create. 

At this point, I can't tell you how (or if) Shared Playlist will replace the API's you are currently using. Just to many unknowns at this point so we'll have to work through it once we have the Shared Playlist feature. 

Thanks!
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Stephen Garrett, Champion

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Well, for now, we have to use embedded presentations. They're working the way that we have them set up, and I'm supposed to go show the new system at a trade show next month. We were originally just going to use the Rise Editor and give our customers access that way, but the option to white label the editor was taken away. So once we found out that option wasn't coming back, I started on the customer interface. We only found out about white labeling not coming back because we kept asking about it here, and then I found out about embedded presentations disappearing because I was asking questions about to use them properly. We could have started shipping Rise based systems this past summer if it weren't for the changes we have had to make. I'm not really sure how to plan for these changes.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Hi Stephen, we'll continue to support the API's you are using for Embedded Presentations until we have a viable replacement. So no worries there, but you'll want to migrate once a replacement is available. Just keep in mind loading resource intensive content with an Embedded Presentation will likely cause problems. 

Again, greatly appreciate all your feedback. I'll be in touch once we start dev work for the Shared Playlist. Thanks!
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Dave

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All:  The recent announcement of  the  "play until done" schedule feature has me examining our use-cases again. We will be experimenting a bit over the remainder of the week and are speculating  that this feature, combined with something like a shared playlist, will get us close to where we need to be. Probably does not help a more complicated mod like Stephen's .

We will have to un-embed all of our nests to make this work  and naturally, the functionality of the future playlist feature will be critical to success. No doubt we will lose transitions and timing control that we currently have in embedded presentations. Still, getting close I think.

Thanks to Alan and everyone who has commented on this thread .  VERY educational.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Thanks Dave! Happy to hear this improvement is helpful. Just note that we have not started shared playlist and I'm not sure exactly when we will, but it is in the backlog! 
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Maneesh Kumar

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Like a lot of the other users here, Embedded presentations make access and updating displays a lot easier.  

In our scenario, we have multiple groups that can post content in specific sections on the screen (placeholders).  This also limits sub-companies to only needing to edit their presentation and all displays being managed by the parent company and ensures consistent and easier to configure CAP emergency messaging.

We also use common elements in multiple presentations, since different displays are owned by different groups, the common elements like a header, footer or generic RSS schedule can be managed by the primary company.


Let me know if their are alternatives, but this is a necessary feature based on how RiseVision is setup in general for Digital Signage.
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Darius - PRODO.us, Champion

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Technically you still could do it with Custom URL Widget.
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Wendi Borden, Champion

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We're in the same boat with usage. It's one way we're looking to limit functionality to subcompanies (to specific placeholders). I suppose Custom URL would be an idea.. would likely have to use the Device URL rather than just a Preview URL given that Preview ignores schedules. That could get pretty hairy, as you'd not be able to reuse that URL, among other problems. Nice idea though, I'll remember to keep it in mind. One positive is I've seen some mention that Rise is looking into permissions per placeholder.. that would definitely be a step in the right direction toward problems just like this. We will just have to see where that progresses. :)
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CedarNate

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Is this change primarily to limit options like Chrome Sign Builder instead of the native Rise Vision application? It'd be pretty easy to point Sign Builder at the URL of a presentation and then embed presentations to create a playlist that can be controlled from the Rise Vision platform.
(Edited)
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Wayne Rasor

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I will add to the list of people that need embedded presentations. I have a playlist that I update within a presentation that feeds down to over 100 sub companies that allows me to items to the playlist without going into all 100+ sub-companies. Please don't kill this feature or find an alternative to it.

On a separate note, I have found that touchscreen presentations using web widgets do not work correctly when embedded. Interaction timeouts get messed up, but when a the same web widget is used without embedding, it works. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Thank you
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Media Manager

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There is a lot of feed back here and I haven't read most of it, so I'm probably being redundant.  However, Embedded Presentations allow me to manage similar content together without wading through dozens of placeholder items in a single presentation. I can break down my content into smaller chunks.  Less scrolling and hunting means I am more efficient and productive and can make changes quickly.

In addition, I can preview those embedded presentations separately.  I don't have to front load them in the main presentation to preview them before moving them into their respective order somewhere down the line before finally publishing them.  It is maddening to have a group of a dozen similar items that I have tweaked to all be unique but then have to move them individually through the main presentation playlist, playing a game of virtual leapfrog.

It is essential to be able to move groups of playlist items through the playlist easily and efficiently or be able to preview them without having to wait for other approved content to play.
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Alan Clayton, Official Rep

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Makes sense and thanks for the feedback! 
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Media Manager

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To further this, here is a question: For whom are embedded presentations "really complex to manage"? Because in my relatively simple environment (one display and a few schedules), embedded Presentations [would] make things exponentially easier. Here is my set up.

I have one display that goes out to a live broadcast. My main Presentation, which plays from 6 am to midnight, has a mixture of Google Sheets, a Google Calendar, RSS feeds, videos, and HTML content. A breakdown looks like this:

1 "ads" HTMLs
3 "academia" RSS feeds
1 "academia" video
13 "weather" HTMLs
1 "student life" video
5 "cafeteria menu" Google Sheets Widgets
1 "events" video
1 Google Calendar Widget

It is anywhere from a half hour to 2 hours worth of content in constant rotation, depending on what is scheduled to play. Now, instead of having a list of 26+ items (the ads are played a number of times throughout) under one Placeholder, it would be much, much easier to group these into about 5 different categorized Presentations. Not only would the list of items much easier to read, but it would re-ordering the playlist substantially easier. Furthermore, I could then go to each sub-Presentation and rearrange the order, change, or add and remove content without disrupting the main Presentation. That is, when I modify a sub-Presentation and publish it, I don't have to worry about the main presentation restarting somewhere in the middle.

[Edit] Incidentally, embedding and "live" updates is the reason I use Google Sheets for our cafeteria menus. Not only can I make it look nice, but I don't have to modify several individual Presentations to update it every single week during the school year.

[Edit2] And why I embed a Google Slide for our "ads".

This workflow makes so much more sense to me, is so much more efficient, and is by far less disruptive than not having embedded Presentations. Why would I want to work harder than I have to?
(Edited)
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Robb, Official Rep

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Thanks for the feedback Media Manager. That detailed rundown is quite helpful.
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Jonathan Wilson

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When we first transferred old templates to Rise Vision, we set up embedded presentations because that seemed to be the only way to fade between them. If we simply listed them in a schedule, there was no fade. 
If I were to do it again, I'd try and make sure the presentations were simple enough that I could have the fade effects within a single presentation, rather than linking several. 
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Stephen Garrett, Champion

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Since this has popped back up to the top again, are there any updates on what's going on with the shared playlists idea? It's been mentioned that it's a priority in several places in the last couple of months.
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Robb, Official Rep

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Stephen,

No updates at the moment unfortunately.

Don't worry, it's certainly on the list, we are just dealing with some other stuff first. That's the good thing about having a long list :)
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John Viney

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Hi - we use embedded presentations to manage custom content for the different areas of the business - we have over 20 sites which all have custom content - which we manage by having one over all template which then has a playlist of embedded presentations - one companywide info , one for the business area, one for the region and one for the local. - then we only ever need to update the embedded presentations for whichever business area we need to reach.
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RV News

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Hi, what is the status on embedded presentations
(Edited)
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Blake Freeman, Official Rep

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Hi RV News,

Embedded Presentations are still available in the Classic Editor.We are still looking into valid replacements for our new Editor.
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tony

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Glad to see this still alive.  I think getting rid of the embedded presentations will kill the usefulness of platform.  We use this feature in some way shape or form in almost every presentation and use with for every customer.  
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AdGators AdGators

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Thank you for keeping around the Classic Editor. Transitioning is happening, but has been slow.

How long will we still be able to use the Classic Editor?
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Robb, Official Rep

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Rosalinda,

We do not have a specific date, but we will be sure to announce to everyone via our blog and forum if and when a date is determined.

Thanks!